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Where Have All The People Gone? |
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Responses |
| Local Radio Support? |
| Live performance is dead? |
| Get a following |
| Bands are lazy |
| Gig Promotion? |
| Local advertising? |
| Bands should play for free? |
| Bristol Audiences are crap? |
| A Venue perspective? |
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Local Radio Support? |
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In
Bristol particularly, would it be fair to say that there are a
lot more bands, and a lot more venues putting them on? I'm
hardly in a position to decry the rise of the singer/songwriter
and acoustic scene (given that's where my stuff neatly
snuggles), but you do start to believe that there are more muso's
than punters these days, and that the "scene" is largely made up
of musicians going to see each other's bands. Whilst there's
nothing at all wrong with any of this, it does pull the average
folk-loving punter in about 25 different directions every night
of the week, which makes it harder for even the best and most
established bands to get a decent following at any one event.
We've found, particularly when playing in London, that people
who've come along for the first time inevitably say "This is
great. Why the hell don't I come to more live music?" There's
a lot of untapped potential if you can just get people's bottoms
off the couch the first time. So, we shouldn't be too
despondent. There's loads of bands and more places to play,
which can only be a good thing. To a certain extent the market
is 'swamped', but the desire to see live music is, I think,
still there. Just cracking the inertia is difficult. I think
it's about broadening the appeal of gigs and live music beyond
people who:
a)
are on mailing lists
b)
read Venue avidly;
c)
use Facebook; or
d)
are mates with the band
I
think the key to this is support from mainstream radio. BCFM
does a great job, but given that we have our own BBC radio
station, I think it's terrible that people can't be introduced
to some quality live music that way. Richard and Gary have a
great show (which is on at 1 in the morning), and Kate Salisbury
gets 5 minutes or so on a Saturday, but in general terms that's
it. Presenters such as Keith Warmington and John Turner are big
supporters of local music, but I wonder to what extent their
hands are tied when it comes to playing and promoting it. Bless
'em, even HTV had a good crack at it a couple of years ago with
Earshot - I wonder where that went? It was fantastic.
The
other answer is putting on bigger and better events. The
festivals don't have an attendance problem; the sold-out
Folkhouse Acoustic Festival for example is a measure of the
demand for quality music in town. So perhaps fewer weekday
warblers, and some more quality weekend-long events?
And
one more thing, which is advice we've been given a lot recently
(and haven't really got round to following). You can be the
best musicians in the world with great songs, but people need to
be entertained; light-shows, costumes, jolly-japery on
stage, good banter...all that kind of thing will help entice the
punters. I think perhaps that, in the age of HD TV, just playing
your songs isn't enough!
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Live performance is
dead? |
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It all makes sense. I think people probably do
have the income but they prefer to spend it on other things.
Entertainment has moved on, partly due to technology and partly
to do with the media (i.e suggesting how to behave). I've
noticed that even on a Thursday evening the centre of Bristol is
dead.
I think the only way to get crowds is to do
something a bit unique (i.e. set-up a stage on College Green and
play there; impossible but you know what I mean) and combine it
with massive publicity.
Also, taste may count, many of the youngsters
today like music that wasn't sold to them on live performance.
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Get a following |
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Interesting and amusing article.
Very hard to put yer finger on it all you know! One thing that
I do know is except for the regulars if people don't know your
playing somewhere or even that you exist then they ain't gonna
come and see you. Email lists, web site promotion what's on
listings in the paper all that sort of stuff needs to be done by
bands and venues. Most of the original bands and venues, places
like the fleece, the prom are quite good at promoting themselves
as for most of them if they don't absolutely no one will turn up
(probably). Cover band pubs are mostly crap at this and rely on
locals etc. Look on your web site on a Friday or Saturday and
on a good day maybe 5 to 10 cover bands are listed but there are
probably another 20 to 40 cover bands playing in the Bristol
area that are rarely or never listed.
Ever played the Queen Vic in Stroud? We play there about 4
times a year. Nearly always packed to the brim with queues of
people waiting to get in from 8:30pm. Great gig, they know what
they are doing somehow. I'd like to think it was us and maybe
it is but I suspect not.
We
don't need everyone to come, just a big enough slice of people.
The more than know what's happening the more likely a better
attendance.
All
obvious stuff you say but I think in a lot of cases that's all
it is.
We
played the Mayors Arms in Redcliff a few weeks ago to 2 people.
That's the first time that's happened to me for a really long
time and the first time ever for this band. Mind you, they
stayed all night (dare they walk out).
There are loads of places to play these days, more than I ever
remember before, you just gotta put yourself about a bit I guess
and try and build a following (some I wish would go away).
So,
aaarrrgggghhh and sparrows kidneys forsooth!
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Bands are lazy |
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This is my own personal response to the
article entitled 'Where Have All The People Gone?' Not only does the
article make completely incorrect arguments regarding the level of
disposable incomes in Britain and completely abuse the nefarious
concept of the 'average' (something that is quite honestly shocking
for a manager at Virgin Media but confirms my view that the higher
you get in Business the more incompetent you can be with statistics)
but it also targets the blame at the wrong people. The fault lies
with the bands not the punters. Put simply, there are too many crap
bands playing similar music who are also
incapable and embarrassed of putting on a show and it is this
that has left audiences disillusioned with live music. It is true
that most people would rather stay at home than go out to a gig but
that is because they have lost faith in the 'event' or the
'spectacle'. Music has been reduced to its most basic form by bands
that have nothing to offer outside of an Mp3 download from the
internet. Punters still pay out to watch football matches because
of the sense of being 'part' of something 'significant'. The real
solution is a return to an era when bands mattered to people. In
twenty years time are people going to remember bands like Kasabian,
Bloc Party and Editors in the same way they remember The Clash,
Bowie or Led Zeppelin, my personal opinion is that they won't.
Musicians should stop fingering the blame at the audience in order
to divert the attention away from their own shortcomings as
entertainers. In other words, the buck stops here. |
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Gig Promotion? |
A good article, I think you've raised a topic that most Bristol
bands have been concerned about for some time, but have never really
tried to get a discussion going about it. There's nothing more soul
destroying than playing to an empty venue.
I've seen the same with every debut gig I've ever done, including
Defacto's. For the initial gigs, you can get a reasonable turn out
from your friends and co-workers, because it's a novelty for them -
they're genuinely interested in seeing you play live. However, over
time, you can't rely on your friends alone - the initial appeal has
gone for them, and for many of the same reasons you mention below.
There's little to attract them to come and see you play again, at
least not every time.
For me, a lot of the crowd I can get along to initial gigs aren't
big music fans, so there's no appeal for the night, other than
seeing me play (and that's pushing the boundaries of 'appeal'
somewhat...)
The ideal is to pick up fans who you don't know. Speculative punters
that have caught your act before, and want to see you again. Now,
we've played some blinding gigs before, (and some not so blinding
ones as well), but if you're only playing to people you already
know, then how are you going to pick up new fans ?
Of course, therein lies the problem - referring to CJ's comments
about disposable incomes - if you only have ten pounds to spend, are
you willing to risk that on a band you've not seen before, and know
little about ? - Perhaps the problem is that we're not seeing as
many speculative punters these days.
Granted, you might pick up a few new fans from bands on the same
bill as you, but if most bands only bring along their close friends
(and, if like my crowd, most of them aren't big music fans), then
you're going to have to pull some magic to win anyone over.
Part of the problem, I think, is promotion. You have to go out of
your way to find out what bands are playing where in Bristol, and
let's face it, if you're not specifically looking for this
information, you'd never know anything about live music in Bristol.
If we have a gig coming up, we try to promote it as much as
possible, but there are very few opportunities to do this
effectively. I think some venues could also do a better job of
promoting local bands - I've played some gigs where the venue hasn't
even bothered to do anything for the gig (including some where they
didn't even bother to provide working PA...). But again, where can
they promote, without spending large amounts of money ?
Take for example, The Fleece - a cracking venue, with a lot of
potential, but the only time I see any promotion for the venue is
when I'm in there. Sure, they may be promoting elsewhere, but I only
see the adds because I'm a muso - how is Joe Blogs supposed to know
what's going on ? Perhaps Bristols' media could get more involved
(radio, newspapers, tv, websites etc...) working with venues to be a
bit more aggressive in promoting gigs. Dare I say it, but perhaps
the promoters (for all venues) could try doing some actual, you
know, promoting ?
For me, it's never been about the money - I'd happily play for free
to a big crowd, than play to one man and his dog, just for a few
quid. I can't offer any solutions to the problem, but I'll happily
get involved in anything that serves to improve the situation.
Apologies for rambling here... it's been a long day... |
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Local advertising? |
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Now....here is my latest theory and as you would
expect, it is rather ingenious.
Having tried to promote a number of gigs around
Downend using Bristol Rocks, I have found that the advertising
has been of little use in getting an audience and I suspect that
the reason must be this. If someone wants to go & see a band in
Bristol, they will look on a gig guide for something going on in
the area that they want to visit. So advertising a gig in town
IS worthwhile. However on the outskirts of town, the pubs are
used by local people and others will not go to these places if
they are out of their way because it is easier to see a band in
a pub near their home where travel is not a problem and
consequently their beer intake will be enhanced. In this
instance, the band and venue are better off advertising in the
region of the pub with flyers etc.
The reason that places like the Fleece are not
well used anymore is that they have no regulars and they are not
that easy to get too. CJ may be right about the cash situation
but I believe that ten years ago, people were more willing to
drive to a venue, have a couple of pints and then drive home.
Now in most cases the driver will not drink, especially if they
have to drive a bit of a distance.
So the hypothesis is this...... Advertising a gig
within a mile radius of the pub using leaflets & posters is more
effective than general advertising and mailshots.
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Bands should play for free? |
We hear a lot from venues to the effect
that they are businesses and need to make money. However, many
up-and-coming bands are only staged on early weekdays; days on which
pubs wouldn't expect to bring in big crowds anyway. As such, even a
group of thirty extra punters in, listening and drinking, improves
on expected revenue for Mondays and Tuesdays. 30 people paying £3
should cover a sound engineer's costs. The bands should not expect
to be paid for these numbers, but nor should 'pay to play' schemes
be attempted as they would fail. A missing part of this equation is
the promoter's costs. (Perhaps promoters should be done away with
as, unfortunately, I've dealt with many and they don't seem to pull
their weight by advertising gigs.)
As a possible solution, I'd like to comment on the unsigned nights
at the Fleece, of which I first heard recently. I noticed that the
sets were 30 minutes rather than the usual 40. 30 minutes is still
worth seeing a band for, and a well-organised venue could use the
shorter sets to stage more bands over an evening. It might mean
starting earlier (i.e. the Louie should kick off sooner than the
usual 8.45). More bands means more fans. |
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Bristol Audiences are crap? |
In response to the live gig punters or lack of them We ran
hallelujah club night down in Bristol waste of time! We were
playing pretty much everything not just a certain genre, but
people don't get behind it hence we packed up and jogged on
elsewhere!
On the flip side of that smaller town/cities and far more
cosmopolitan cities than Bristol do pure Britpop/Manchester nights
are pulling in massive crowds. I went to one on some random night
in Leeds and people from 18-40 were there and the music in one was
room was similar to hallelujah, the room was packed to the rafters
with people going nuts. People seemed to really love it, show some
passion about 'there scene'.
We never had that in Bristol, the times when we had a good
crowd, people still seemed not arsed. Is a shame as I love Bristol
and it's atmosphere, is a good place, but I am sorry will never
have a decent indie scene like the other cities/towns of it's
size... |
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A Venue perspective? |
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Oh go on then, I’ll stick my two two-penneth
worth in.
One aspect that has become very clear to me is
that the key to a successful music venue is cultivating a true
partnership between bands and venues.
The contributor who wrote “perhaps the
promoters could try some actual, you know, promoting” is spot on.
It is very, very tough getting enough people in
a smallish pub venue to actually generate sufficient profit from
hosting live music to actually make any profit (assuming the
“average” fee paid these days).
Let’s examine for a moment the economics? For
the sake of argument lets assume a band fee of £150? Taking into
account staff as well as other overheads, a pub has to generate at
least £300 of additional drinks sales purely to break even. With a
capacity of say, 150 it doesn’t take the editor of Bristol Rocks
(Hey Dat's me!!) to work out that unless the venue is rammed every
time, it’s tricky to justify continuing as a music venue on pure
financial grounds?
As a promoter working to support a small venue
committed to the Bristol music scene, I have to consider financial
viability simply to keep going, and It’s very fine line balancing
that with building up the reputation of the venue and trying to
ensure consistent quality.
Bands will often comment, with considerable
justification, that the average fee for pub gigs, hasn’t gone up in
10 years. I am sympathetic to this view. I am constantly humbled
that such talented people give so freely of their time to entertain
people for such little reward. The only way the situation will ever
change is if venues and musicians work together to ensure a revival
in local music?
Venues simply cannot sustain higher reward for
bands unless we can get more music fans in?
I can only book bands and artists who are
prepared to put as much effort as I do into promotion. On this
basis, I am prepared to take risk in supporting new bands as well
the obvious “crowd-pullers”.
I fear that sometimes venues are in danger of
taking a narrow view on financial viability? Clearly, one needs to
be realistic, but occasionally it’s worth investing in the
reputation of the venue and also considering the other “spin-off”
benefits other than attendance on the night.
It takes time to build reputation and respect
both for bands and venues.
My aspiration is that bands can work in
partnership with those venues that, while recognising the need for
financial viability, are also prepared to put the effort in to
support the local music scene by putting in the effort to publicise
the events for the benefit of the band, the venue and the music
fans.
It ain’t easy, these days, is it? |
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